Episode 20: The Kadence Community and Influence with Maestro Stevens

Kadence is so much more than a theme. With a suite of plugins that help anyone create more effective WordPress websites, Kadence also provides opportunity for empowerment for developers looking to create additional streams of income. In this episode, Kathy and Hannah are joined by Maestro Stevens, a WordPress developer who has created a set of impressive design libraries that can help anyone create more effective sites with Kadence Blocks.

In addition to audio, this is a video podcast. Watch on YouTube, or find us on your favorite podcasting app.

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Timestamps and Links


Kathy: Welcome to another episode of The Kadence Beat. Hey, this one’s a little bit different, Hannah. How you doing?

Hannah: I’m doing good. Yeah, we’re mixing it up.

Kathy: I’m excited. We’re mixing it up. Yeah, everything’s a little different. We’re actually doing a video podcast this time. Hopefully, if it looks terrible on YouTube, it’s that the video didn’t go as well as we thought. But we wanna keep things, a little spicy, gotta challenge ourselves a little bit here.

Hannah: We love spice.

Kathy: Spice is good. And we’re missing Ben. Ben is not here. Ben’s a little busy, I think.

Hannah: Ben is very busy. He was, I think he’s probably, he’ll be sad when he hears the podcast that he wasn’t in it, but I also think he was very happy to get an hour of his day back.

Kathy: Definitely, anything that I can do to take things off of Ben’s plate and give him more freedom to get things done. Hey, it’s good for all of us. But we have a very special guest this time. We have one of our Kadence affiliates, one of our Kadence power users, who has been really active on the Kadence Facebook group. And we’ve been talking for a few months because he’s doing a lot of cool things with Kadence Cloud. So much work on Ben’s plate and was like, you know, let’s do something a little different. Let’s bring one of our prime users on and talk a little bit about how they use Kadence. What do you think, Hannah? Does this sound fun?

Hannah: I love it. I’m here for it.

kathy: All right, so let’s bring him on. Maestro Stevens, how are you doing today?

Maestro: I’m doing well. Kathy and Hannah, thank you for having me as a guest. This is interesting being the prototype.

Kathy: You are. Thank you for being a good sport and experimenting with us here on the Kadence Beat podcast. Yeah, we just wanted to kind of spotlight what you’re doing because really Kadence is not just a software product, it’s really about the entire community. It’s about what everybody’s doing with Kadence and all of these amazing tools. So I wanted to just ask you a little bit about how you got started with Kadence. Where did you first hear of it? What brought you into the community?

Maestro: Yeah. As far as just being aware of Kadence in the beginning, it was from another influencer by the name of Adam. I mean, he actually was somebody who really introduced me, and a lot of people to the overall concept of what Kadence was. And once I dove in, I was just floored by the fact that it’s a word that you’re probably gonna hear me say often, but it’s a complete ecosystem and it just reminds me a lot of Apple. You know, love and hate for Apple. They have so many different areas that they touch, and I had no idea that Kadence or even any type of WordPress tool could touch so many areas at one time. So I just fell in love right away.

Kathy: Cool. What was some of the first things that you did with Kadence?

Maestro: Well, I challenged myself actually, once I got a hold of the bundle, and got over the whole kind of like getting a new present on Christmas excitement aspect of things, I decided to task myself and my team to developing an event page using Kadence Blocks and Theme. And it was actually it was a charity event dedicated to cancer cuz my father had died in 2019, Chadwick Boseman as well too. So I said let me combine two things in one, do something for a great cause while challenging myself to be able to create a website in a very robust, flexible way without having to do so much optimization.

Kathy: Sure. And that’s great. And how did it work for you? Like when you first started building it, what were some of the things that you noticed? Was it easy to use?

Maestro: Well, I wouldn’t say the term easy at that time would be the correct term unless, you know, I was being a little, if I was underestimating the learning curve of going from something like a page builder to building with the WordPress editor. That part had nothing to do with Kadence.

That was more of just the learning curve of a new development style. I would definitely say that Kadence made it easier because even my developers fell in love with it, you know once they grabbed a hold of it and they’re just like, whoa, what is this thing? And where did this come from? Cuz they were so used to building with page builders as well.

So, after we got over the hump of you know learning the WordPress editor and be able to, Kind of mimic in some ways the, some of the functionalities that we would get out of a page builder. It did get easier, you know, after that. And I can say it’s gotten easier since then.

Hannah: Yeah. I would love to go back and interview everybody who made the switch from, you know, the from page builders and the classic editor into the Gutenberg editor and just be like, what’d you think initially, I think 98% of people would say I hated it, because it was such a change.

And change is hard. And I remember initially like Ben was building Kadence Blocks and I was like, I hope this editor doesn’t stick around. Like this is not good. And now I’m like, it’s the best. You’re gonna love it. It’s the best. But there, there was such a learning curve with it.

Kathy: with it. So this was pretty typical of what you saw when people were coming into Kadence, that there were a lot of people who had a hard time just kind of grasping what was happening until they had that aha moment?

Hannah: Totally.

Kathy: Yeah, it was hard for me at first too. I mean, the whole Gutenberg thing, I was like, okay, well, I can see where we’re going here. I can see what it’s trying to do. And I knew, you know, Elementor existed, Divi existed, and I had used both of those and I could see what Gutenberg was trying to do.

So I kind of like forced myself to use it and little keyboard shortcuts kind of helped. Once I learned that the slash key was gonna like open up like starting a new block and things like that, it made it easier. But it wasn’t like this, oh, this is amazing kind of experience. But as soon as I use Kadence though, I get it. I get it. It like changed my entire relationship with Gutenberg. You know, it made me see that that there was a future for using just the Gutenberg editor and building out sites. I could see where it was going. And the cool thing that I really loved about Kadence was all of the design libraries, all of these like, just all of the different things that allowed me to be like, okay, I need to have a hero image and it needs to have, it made me think about what I was building in a site, and really helped me like sort of hone in on what needed to go there just because of all of these prebuilt templates. I didn’t have to start from that blank screen. Did you guys have similar experiences?

Maestro: Yeah, I would say so. I, It’s interesting at the time that Kadence was introduced, the new version, the more evolved version, I think it was around 2020, if I’m not mistaken. And that’s also a time where people were very hesitant about where the WordPress editor was, you know, where Gutenberg was. There was a lot of debate amongst people who were talking about was it ready, was it not ready? It’s come a long way since then. So when you’re pairing another system with another system, and one system is kind of catching up to the other system, you know, WordPress editor being the one system, Kadence being a whole nother system, you’re always gonna have that kind of mismatchy, wishy-washy feeling. And I think that that’s where people were very hesitant to dip their, to like, to all the way dive in the water. They were dipping the toes and they’re like, oh, it’s cold. Ooh. And then they, you know, finally jumped in and they’re like, oh, you know, I can swim and float and all types of stuff. I think that it just needed some time for WordPress to almost kind of catch up to Kadence in a way.

Kathy: Yeah. And Hannah, Ben actually started creating Kadence blocks before Gutenberg was part of core. It wasn’t. That’s sort of the genesis. Yeah. So he saw where it was going and Yeah, totally. Yeah. Fun times and, and look at where we are now. Now a story you’ve developed, you’ve used Kadence Cloud to develop a whole set of design libraries. Can you talk about what, when did you see that that was something that was gonna be beneficial to you?

Maestro: Well, if I’m not mistaken, and I wanna make sure, cause I, I’m big on getting dates together. I don’t wanna, but I would say Kadence Cloud, when I was first envisioned it, it was, I mean, when I first got a hold of it, it was late April of 2021. And that was based on Ben really kind of introducing the concept of we’re gonna build something internally for us that you’re also gonna be able to use. That to me was already authenticity or example of authenticity itself. You know, hey, we really need this tool for our team. And then we wanna double down on that and use it, you know, help other people use it.

So once he announced that, my mind just went in so many different directions, like, oh, okay, I understand the power of templating and just another terminology for, you know, a standard operating procedure, you know, type of model or guide or whatever the case is. And so once he did that, I was like, oh, well we need it, too.

And then, you know, after it’s released, it, I started envisioning it in July of 2020. , but it was about a year until I was actually able to implement and execute, you know, based on my capacity of being able to really create something. Just like you all, just like Ben said, for us internally, you know, so we can have that authenticity aspect and then saying, Hey, I want the rest of the world to have the same benefits I have.

Kathy: Right. So what is the name of your cloud library that you are basically offering to the Kadence community?

Maestro: We named it Iconic Templates to stick with brand, I would say, synchronization and consistency. I’m real big on branding and that’s one thing I love about Kadence is the combination of being able to add your fonts, colors, you know, the typical visual things. But also it gave me the ability to relay some key messages. So one of them was my actual agency is called The Iconic Expressions. And so I decided to create what is considered a branded house versus a house of brands. So, you know, Apple would be more of a branded house, Proctor & Gamble would be more of a house of brands like Disney. So I stuck with the same name so that people would be able to see, oh, this is related to this and this is related to that. And from there I thought it was kind of cool because using the word templates as a SEO guy, you know, it’s easy to get in those rankings using that keyword templates. And I just put iconic with it because it was what my company was already called.

Kathy: And what are some of the design elements that you have? Like what kind of packages are you offering through that?

Maestro: Right now, we’re striving to do something a little different than some of the other power users, cloud users as well. Because I’m very much inspired by everybody who is also creating in the ecosystem. Jake was one of the people I would 100% say inspired me once he developed his Start Blogging Blocks and, you know, I’m not a fan of reinventing the wheel, but we also don’t wanna be a copycat. So, you know, being inspired and modeling is one thing, but doing something a little unique was me thinking well I’m not a developer by trade. I’m very strategic. I’m considering myself an engineer. And I wanted to give people the ability to have other types of templates since I do post a lot about strategy and integrations and connecting the dots with certain things. So I said, Hey, let’s develop a platform that, you know, you could not only get these WordPress blocks via Kadence blocks, but you can also get other plugin template types.

So basically if there’s a template for a plugin, it’s gonna be on Iconic Templates at some point in time.

Kathy: Excellent. And when did you launch those? It wasn’t that long ago, was it? It feels like not that long ago, but it may be like months now.

Maestro: Yeah, actually we launched this summer as far as, free packaged, just to kind of test the theory, test the waters.

It was a beta period and really it started off… I was gonna launch it ironically on one of my other platforms that was more meant for, you know, underprivileged people and minority entrepreneurs. And it was really only because of the data that I got that I pivoted and made Iconic Templates. A lot of people don’t know that, like that wasn’t the original plan.

It was really only because. people showing interest and wanting the free templates in an exchange. I did a little testing, you know, having a marketing background. I said, well, you know, I’m not, I’m willing to give you these free templates, but, you know, will you help me out and fill out my survey so I had some information on what you all want, and, you know, I found out some information on that. So I ended up pivoting and taking it off of my original plan and moving it to a whole nother plan, a whole nother website, because of the information I got from the Kadence community. Otherwise, I would’ve never done that.

Hannah: Wow.

Kathy: Wow, that’s really interesting. Yeah. and how’s, well, I guess the biggest question is how has that gone for you? How has the launch been? Has it been received really well?

Maestro: Yes. I mean, I would say for the most part it’s still, you know, a challenge in some ways because this is my first time being a product manager.

You know, being a software service, you know, owner and, and really taking on the mantle of going from, you know, invoicing to now custom support tickets, and those kind of things, you know, that’s a whole new ballgame than when you’re working kind of in an agency business model, getting users, getting new users, how do you expand and grow.

Those are all things that I’ve been studying Kadence and other companies that has helped me get over that hump. But I would say for the most part I’ve gotten really good feedback. We have a small community as well with iconic templates, and they definitely give me feedback, too. And for the most part, I am excited, you know, for this next year coming because, I would say since we’ve launched, it’s really been, I won’t consider it beta, but it’s been really, let’s listen, let’s reiterate, let’s evolve, let’s figure this out, you know, as a team, and then let’s really blast off to the moon or the stars and beyond, you know, once, once this next year comes.

Kathy: Amazing. That’s awesome. Hannah, you’ve been watching the Kadence community for years. Are we seeing a lot of these. Situations happen where we’ve got somebody who’s like, becomes very involved and becomes like a power user, like Maestro, and then they sort of develop their own community within the Kadence community. What have you seen there?

Hannah: I love it. It like, it makes me so happy. I think we brought up Jake, he’s another great example of someone who has his own community, but very much centered around Kadence and it’s exciting. It’s really, really fun to see and fun to hear from people like you Maestro, who are just taking it and running and like creating other sub communities, you know, for, I’d say sub-community, but also kind of, you know, because Kadence is a huge part of it, and like, I shouldn’t feel proud. I don’t know why I, I don’t, it’s not that I take credit, but I do feel proud. It like, makes me feel like this is really cool, it’s really special. And the Kadence community is like my favorite part of Kadence. I just think it’s so sweet. It’s really fun and exciting and people love to give feedback and engage with each other and yeah, I think it’s beautiful.

Kathy: Yeah, I do too. And the cool thing is, is it’s not just like one, like the Kadence community. It’s like all of these like little sub communities that are, you know, not necessarily like within Kadence community, but they, there’s like this overlap and sort of this symbiotic relationship. So like Maestro, your community is not entirely all Kadence, but you know, you have other people that you’re bringing into, into Kadence and, but there’s some people who are just like, no, I’m just really into what you’re doing and what you can offer. And so, so from this foundation of, of what Kadence can offer and the tools that it’s giving to entrepreneurs like you, it’s like really creating this wider ecosphere that’s all about empowering people and lifting people up and giving them the tools to like get started building their dream online without ever having to touch a line of code.

And I think it’s just great because there’s people like you Mestro, where you’re not just cultivating that community for yourself. You’re coming back into the wider Kadence community and supporting that as well. And so it just kind of becomes this giant feedback loop of empowerment for people. It’s amazing. How has that process been for you?

Maestro: I can say it’s been, well, a learning process. Not to be cliche and know we hear that all the time. But it’s been very interesting and, and exciting at the same time. And I mean, I think that nothing is nothing that is gonna be a long term success is gonna come easy all, all the time.

You know, you gotta go through those humps, you gotta go through those peaks and valleys. And I can say for me, it was a mission. You know, as far as it was purpose, it was beyond just being able to, you know, create really, really cool websites. It was really me being able to give, opportunities for other people, because, well, one, well WordPress really resides on accessibility.

That’s a big pillar of WordPress. And I tell people who don’t understand. WordPress’s mission is in tandem with Kadence’s mission cuz Kadence is built with WordPress. So it’s like to be able to separate the two, it’s like trying to call something a peanut bud jelly sandwich and you got peanut butter on one slice and jelly on another slice, but you never put ’em together.

So, you know, I feel that because of what WordPress does in general and then Kadence really advocating or extending that in its own way, it’s given me the ability, that I don’t talk about often, but more lately, it’s given me the ability to allow people who never used the WordPress before, don’t have a lot of money, barely can afford internet to be able to use and build their own business and websites, and they would’ve never even been privy or been introduced or anything like that unless I had brought it up to ’em because, you know, we are attracted to people who look like us sometimes or sound like us a lot more than people who are just complete strangers. So, you know, they look at me as a representation of something totally new that they’ve never had before, never would’ve had, never would’ve even understood. And now of a sudden, I know people who are using some of our. And, and Kadence, blocks as well, that literally, if it wasn’t for me bringing it up to them, they would’ve been so scared to even try WordPress because, you know, it feels like a huge leap, you know, to dive into.

Kathy: Right. Let’s talk a little bit about that, because it was something that you mentioned in a recent post in the Facebook group about just how certain groups of people from their heritage are underrepresented in tech. And you know, tech has… I’ve been around tech a really long time. You know, I mean, bill Clinton was in office when I first dove into tech and got, got learning how to code, learning what FTP was, all of this stuff. Learning how, how to write SQL and address a database and getting that database on the web that was like huge back then, but I was still the only female in a department of guys. And so it’s like, it’s weird and, and sometimes, you know, there was one instance where somebody said, you know, oh, well you’re the marketing girl.

And I’m like, I can hack you! I’m gonna find out how, you know, that kind of thing. Because it’s like, well, the girl doesn’t know how to do these kinds of things. And you know, this was in the nineties of course, and things, a lot of things have changed, but there’s a lot of things that haven’t changed. And I know, you know, with your racial heritage being a black man in tech, there are similar challenges to being a woman in tech. Can you, let’s just talk a little bit about what you’ve experienced from your point of view. Have you felt like this has been a challenge for you or have you found like the WordPress community being welcome, welcoming?

Maestro: I would say it’s a bit of both. I 100% say you and Hannah are rarities. You’re unicorns in this space. And not cause of what you just, it just touches on exactly what you just said. You don’t see a lot of people of color in this space and you don’t see a lot of women representation as well. And that’s something that I’m aiming to, you know, bridge that gap because of the fact that those are the facts, you know, no pun intended, but those are just the facts, you know?

And one thing that I did post recently to just kind of remind people, you know, outside of my feelings or my mission, 64% of of consumers will buy and purchase from a brand who are about a social cause. That’s a big percentage, that’s a majority right there. That’s more than 50-50. So, and that also means that you’re gonna have, what if it’s 64? You have what? 36% are people that you’re just never gonna please. Like, they’re not gonna work with because of these social causes or issues. And that’s okay. So for me, being able to bridge that gap, because as many YouTube videos I’ve watched, like I said, you know, Adam, is one person, Ben is another, who else do I have that I’ve been watching for Russell Brunson. I’ve learned everything about funnels and stuff from him, Neil Patel, Maria Forleo. These are just some people in the space that I’ve learned from, but there’s not a lot of people that I’ve seen that again, look like me.

Not saying that that’s who I’m looking for, but it makes it easier, to your palate. You know, Mr. Mr. Wonderful says on Shark Tank, gotta bite my beak. But you know, so you, you gotta, you just, it just makes it easier when you can see people who, who are similar, have similar values and views to you.

That’s part has been a challenge and was the reason why I literally moved my templates to a whole nother platform because the data told me that most of the people that were using my templates filling out that form were not African Americans. They were not Asian Americans, they were not Indian Americans. They were not women.

That was what the data told me. And if, you know, if I can be transparent, I do remember sharing that with you, Kathy. You know, I proudly shared that with you and nobody’s ever given me data like that before. And I don’t know if anybody has given you all data like that, you know, before, just to show you all, you know, this is what I’m from your, you know, from the Kadence community. So once I saw that, it literally empowered me to say, okay, I, I don’t want to remove the opportunity of other people being able to use our tools and templates, but I do want to create an avenue to let people know this is still being powered by a man, by a minority company, but it’s for everybody. But I should be able to be proud to say, this is who it’s by.

Kathy: I think it’s great that, that you’re doing that, that you’re just kind of claiming who you really are because I think so many times people dilute their true selves, their authentic, true selves in order to like be more palatable to… and oftentimes it’s like this imagined judgment. It’s not even a real judgment necessarily.

It’s just like this imagined judgment. And maybe there’s a lot of people that don’t get into tech or don’t start working on the web because they have this imagined judgment that, you know, this isn’t for me. For you to be out there and authentically say, this is who I am. You know, there could be a 13 year old kid is like, well if Maestro can do it, I can do it too.

And then of course the goal is for that 13 year old to say, well, Maestro did all of this and now look, now look at how I’ve surpassed him. Right. We want, we want the next generation to have it easier to have, it easier to have it better than, than what we’ve had to go through. So I just wanted to commend you for doing that, for, for being the person who is willing to put yourself out there and say, this is who I am and my, my work is for everyone, but this is who I am. And, and I think that’s great.

Maestro: Speaking on that, I actually, to your point, so I just did a workshop a few, few weeks ago. It was a major conference here in Cleveland, Ohio. Between us, this is exclusive, they spent about a quarter million dollars to put on this. I had one of the best workshops based on what people have said, and it was about 80 people in my workshop. And I introduced 80 people that never heard of Kadence or anything else, you know, before. And yeah, about 90% of the people were minorities, you know, where were people who were underprivileged? I have another one, I’m repeating the same one and this I actually have coming. I’ve been asked to have the children, you know, the teenagers. So to your point as far as teaching the youth and saying, well, hey, you know, if this, this person can do it. I love teaching kids. It’s a different way. And I remember listening to you, Kathy, one of your, and I repeated this to multiple people since I heard you say it, but you said one of the ways that you know your kids are learning is you have them teach you how to do it.

And so I’ve been doing that as well, too. But I love that you, you, you touched on it in one of the last episodes of the Kadence Beat was because I felt that that’s very important for people to understand. You know, if you wanna know, if somebody learns something, have them teach you how to do it and they will learn it faster, I believe.

Cuz you said you were homeschooling. So I’m literally gonna take that same notion with the kids that I’m gonna be teaching and have them teach me, you know, how did you, why did you pick this block and why did you move this here and, and what is this? And then, you know, let see their, the eyes light up of excitement like I’m teaching Maestro. You know, that just makes them feel any better that their teach teacher, they’re the, the Mr. Miyagi. And I’m Daniel-san.

Hannah: I love that.

Kathy: I, I love it too. I’m tearing up a little bit because just the fact that you heard that and then you took that and that, that fact that I learned something and that I said something and that you took it and are making an impact on these kids’ lives is so important to me and my heart is very full. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. The coolest.

Maestro: I didn’t mean to catch off guard. I did not mean to catch K Guard. Kathy, this is not at

Kathy: I’m so glad this is on video cuz now everybody can see me. You know, getting all…

Hannah: Oh, it’s so sweet.

Kathy: sweet. It’s the best. So, I mean, I’m here. There’s a lot of different things. I mean, I’ve been a coder, I’ve been a developer, I’ve been, I’ve been a hacker. I have been somebody who helps people. There’s a lot of different things I can do in WordPress. There’s a lot of things I can do outside of WordPress. I’m here because I see so much value in what Kadence does and the empowerment, and so I, that’s kind of what I wanna do with The Kadence Beat and anything else, anything that comes out my mouth. If it inspires one person to do something like that, my job is done. I’m done here. That’s

Hannah: Don’t leave, we still need you!

Kathy: It’s the best though. Maestro, you have, you have inspired me in so many different ways. Your participation in the group is so incredibly powerful and is so welcome. The fact that you provide so much leadership in the WordPress space. You’re teaching kids! Everything you’re doing, and the fact that you made some time for us here today to just share everything that you’re doing and hopefully someone who watches this or listens to this as a part of the podcast, here’s all of this, and you inspire someone.

And then we’ll have Yan watch you cry. You’ll, you’ll know that you’re touching people too. Cause that’s what we’re here to do. We’re here to uplift everyone, to give everybody the tools and that confidence that so many people need that. Yes, you can do it too. You do not have to use ftp. Learn php, SQL, all of that old stuff, we’ve got it taken care of. So, thank you for being here.

Maestro: I wanna thank you all too, more than anything, like both you two are very active, Hannah, you’re, you’re super active, in the community as far as answering questions, being a part of it. I don’t know how much people understand how much, how big of a role you play. You know, not necessarily because, you know, you don’t, you primary host” or, you know, you’re doing XYZ of these things, but you play a huge role. You take a lot of pressure off of Ben, you take a lot of pressure off of Kathy. You take a lot of pressure off of Kadence, you take a lot of pressure off of, right. Cause I don’t wanna answer everything either, you know, and in the community, cuz I’m not you. And I remember, you know, one of the, previous episodes you were talking about, you know, being, a developer without, you know, being a code. You know, in a way, and that was huge, for me to hear that coming from you as well. So I wanted to, you know, thank you. I put some spotlight on you as well, to let you know that you are being seen, you know, you are being watched, obviously you are being loved by your community, by your team, by the team in general, and you all in general have no idea how much of an impact you’re making on so many other people, whether it’s through me or directly, because if it wasn’t for you all, I truly would not have the ability to touch so many people’s lives that just don’t have, I know people could use other blocks. I know you can use WordPress, but Kadence is a ecosystem. It makes it so much easier when I tell people, Hey, if you get the bundle, you only gotta talk to one company with five different plugins.

Like you don’t have to talk to a whole, cuz that gets overwhelming and it gets cumbersome that you gotta talk to all of these different companies and business owners. We have time and especially as underprivileged people, we don’t know where to go. So when you combine this great support team with a plethora of tools, a suite, it just makes it much easier so people can get on with their day and live out their dreams.

Hannah: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Kathy: Yeah. Thank you you so much. Thank you so much. Maestro, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, wants to follow you on social media, where would they find you?

Maestro: I normally tell people to find me on LinkedIn as far as connecting with me personally. You can always email hello at iconictemplates.com.

I’ll answer myself since I’m the primary person. So don’t worry, you’ll be talking to me, and then I’m on Facebook as well too. You can find me in the Kadence community. Obviously I’m pretty active in there. But any, any other, if you’re in Cleveland or I’m in your city, hit me up. Look me up.

Buy you a beer or glass of wine or coffee, you know, whatever floats your boat and let’s kick it off and have some fun. Have a convers.

Kathy: Amazing. Thank you so much. All right, well, we’re gonna wrap up The Kadence Beat here. Thank you so much for listening or watching if you’re here on YouTube. Thank you so much.

Give us a thumbs up, follow us, all that fun stuff, subscribe, whatever you need to do. Just wanna mention that the Kadence Black Friday sale. Is going on now 40% off the bundles. If you’re doing renewals, that’s 25% off If you’re doing an early renewal and that lifetime, that’s on a discount right now too, and a lot of people are pretty excited about that.

So head over to kadencewp.com/black-friday. Or hit our socials, you’ll see links around there everywhere. That sale is ongoing. It’s a great time to get in on Kadence on those bundles if you haven’t done so yet. And thank you guys for being here. We’ll be back again next time. Maybe it’ll be video again.

Don’t know. We’ll see. We’ll see how this went. It was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for being here, Maestro, see you online.

Maestro: Thank you both.

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